Emeritus posted a link to an article and asked me to address why the articles version of the laws are flawed. I am happy to do so.
Jamie Freeze, a law student, has called any of us who question Soetoro/Obama’s Citizenship status and Constitutional Eligibility to serve as U.S. President, a Constitutional Right of ours of course, incompetent idiots. However, Ms. Freeze may want to continue her education, part of being a lawyer, which is a very important part, is being able to comprehend what you read and to cite the correct law to collaborate it. Something Ms. Freeze has clearly failed to do. I will respond below to Ms. Freeze’s allegations, however, my responses are in bold. I also want to make very clear to all readers, none of the eligibility cases have been heard, litigated or dismissed based on the law pertaining to any of the issues raised. Instead, the eligibility cases have been dismissed on the basis of “STANDING” only.
This type of thing, by Ms. Freeze, is what gives folks the WRONG information and confuses them, it is a deception by Ms. Freeze (as a law student, I hope her professors teach her how to properly, honestly and with integrity, investigate, research the laws, properly cite the laws and argue issues before her). Otherwise, she will be unable to do her clients, when that time comes assuming she passes the bar, justice.
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/freeze/091222
December 22, 2009
Facts are stubborn things: Obama is a natural-born citizen
By Jamie Freeze
I never will forget meeting former North Carolina State Senator Hugh Webster my senior year of high school. He came to my school and had lunch with the seniors. As he sat down beside me, I asked him to tell me what he most loved and hated about being in Raleigh. I don’t remember what he most loved, but I’ll never forget what he most hated. In the words of Mr. Webster, “I don’t deal well with incompetent people.”
Ms. Freeze, unfortunately, is showing her “INCOMPETENCE”, as Ms. Freeze would call it, but I feel “IGNORANCE” is the more appropriate word, as outlined below.
At that point, I knew Mr. Webster and I were kindred spirits. I too don’t deal well with incompetent people. As a matter of fact, I go out of my way to avoid them, but when dealing with them is inevitable, I can’t help but point out their incompetencies. As a law student, I am being trained to be meticulous, well-reasoned, and intelligent. After my final exam grades come back, we’ll see how well I’m doing. But that aside, I feel that I have been too longsuffering in letting the Birther Movement receive simply a few caustic remarks and jabs from me. It’s time for me to call a spade a spade. Here goes: If you believe that President Obama is NOT a natural-born citizen, then you are an incompetent idiot who is probably watching Glenn Beck while wearing a tin-foil hat. You probably think Obama’s a Muslim too.
Our lawsuits have nothing to do with Soetoro/Obama’s religion, they never have. Ms. Freeze seems to have lost a very important part of her education, we as people are entitle to redress, we as people are entitled to ask questions, especially of our elected officials. Incompetent Idiot? It appears that Ms. Freeze’s law school has taught her when you cannot counter something to call the opposing party names. That is not what I was taught in school. I do not see one shred of evidence that supports Ms. Freeze’s position. Ms. Freeze obviously forgot about Barry Soetoro’s name; Did she locate where he legally changed his name to Barack H. Obama? It is fraud to run for and serve as President under an “alias” name. What about Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian citizenship? We have the School Record which Soetoro/Obama has admitted to.
If you are still reading (and not firing off angry emails), then allow me to offer you factual proof that Obama is a natural-born citizen who satisfies the constitutional requirements for Commander-in-Chief. My argument is two-fold: 1. Obama was born in Hawaii (a U.S. state for my incompetent readers). 2. Obama satisfies the requirements found in the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which defines natural-born citizens.\\
Where is the factual proof? Ms. Freeze apparently forgot to attach it. What does Ms. Freeze have to back up that Soetoro/Obama was born in Hawaii? We have been unable to obtain verification of that, no long form birth certificate, only an image that has been deemed a forgery. Despite this, what about his Indonesian Citizenship? Had Ms. Freeze read our briefs, and retained the information, she would have seen that all we do is talk about the Nationality Act of 1940 revised in 1952.
1. Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii joined the Union in 1959. Barack Obama was born in 1961. Do the math. It works. Ok, so perhaps that argument is a bit over-simplified, but that is because I find the birth certificate question so ridiculous. The President released his birth certificate (which was verified by the Hawaii Health Department) yet conspiracy theorists refuse to see logic. “Big bad Obama must be hiding something. That certificate isn’t the long form. What’s he hiding?” What the naysayers fail to realize is that in 1961 the standard Hawaiian birth certificate was…wait for it…exactly the same length as Obama’s! The Hawaiian Health Department has said this, but as conspiracy theorists point out, they must be covering for Obama. Despite the facts, folks say that even if he was born in Hawaii, he is not a natural born citizen because his father was Kenyan. However, even if Obama was born on the moon, he would still be a natural born citizen under the Immigration and Nationality Act.
First, the “long version” birth certificate we are asking for has nothing do to with the size of the document itself, instead it has to do with the information on the document. We have never claimed Hawaii was not a State or Union, so this has nothing to do with the questions we are seeking answers too. Soetoro/Obama released two (2) images of a Certification of Live Birth, claiming it to be his birth certificate, which have been deemed to be forged and altered documents. Hawaii Health Department has NEVER verified the images placed on the internet. Law 101, no agency or person can look at an online image and state the document came from their agency or location, unless, the person making such statement was the one who personally printed the document in question (Soetoro/Obama’s Certification of Live Birth in this case) and handed it to Soetoro/Obama and can prove it is in fact the same document. In Soetoro/Obama’s case, his campaign office stated they mailed the application for his Certification of Live Birth to Hawaii and received this supposed document back from Hawaii. However, the date that Soetoro/Obama would have signed it, Soetoro/Obama was traveling and campaigning for the U.S. Presidency position. We are not disputing the length of Soetoro/Obama’s Certification of Live Birth, we have copies of other individuals actual Certificate of Live births from Hawaii within the same time period, these are two (2) completely different documents. Soetoro/Obama has never released a hard copy of any type of Certification of Live Birth or Certificate of Live Birth to anyone other than Factcheck.org which is part of Annenberg and yes who Soetoro/Obama has close ties with. I am wondering what Ms. Freeze is basing her unsubstantiated statements on. Maybe she will enlighten us. We are not questioning the British Father, as we are well aware of the fact if Soetoro/Obama was born on U.S. soil, which we do not believe, he would in fact be a U.S. “natural born” citizen. However, in fairness to Ms. Freeze, others have questioned the British citizenship of the father and claimed that even if Soetoro/Obama was born on U.S. soil he would not be a “natural born” U.S. citizen due to his father’s foreign citizenship status. I’m going to ask again, what about Soetoro/Obama’s legal name and his Indonesian Citizenship status? Ms. Freeze fails to address these very important issues. We have been unable to locate any legal documentation legally changing Soetoro’s name back to Barack H. Obama; where Soetoro/Obama relinquished his Indonesian Citizenship; and/or where Soetoro/Obama reclaimed any U.S. Citizenship status he may have once held. Again, hopefully Ms. Freeze will enlighten us.
2. Obama is a natural born citizen. In Scales v. INS, 232 F.3d 1159 (2000), we have a clear definition of what natural born citizenship is. Scales’ father was an American serviceman stationed in the Philippines where he met Scales’ mother. They married despite the fact that Scales’ mother was pregnant with him at the time. In all probability, the court said, Scales was a product of his mother’s previous relationship. However, he was born after Mr. Scales married his mother, and he was treated as Scales’ son. Later, Scales was facing deportation because of an aggravated felony involving drugs. He challenged his deportation saying he was a natural born citizen. The court determined that natural born citizenship depends on the statute in effect at the time of the child’s birth. Since Scales was born in 1977, he was a natural born citizen because a “person shall be a national and citizen of the United States at birth who is born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.” Id. at 1169; see 8 U.S.C. §1401(a)(7) (1976). Therefore, Scales was a natural born citizen despite the following: having been born in a foreign country, having been born to a non-citizen, having his American father later deny paternity (and prove non-paternity), and having claimed to be a citizen of the Philippines. Sounds like it is difficult to get rid of natural born citizenship. Let’s examine Barack Obama’s citizenship.
I would first like to note that Scales v. INS, 232 F.3d 1159 (2000) is not exactly on point as neither of Soetoro/Obama’s parents were in the U.S. Military, however, it does outline some of the issues we present. Some more appropriate cases are United States of America v. Cervantes-Nava, 281 F.3d 501 (2002), Drozd v. I.N.S., 155 F.3d 81, 85-88 (2d Cir.1998), Solis-Espinoza v. Gonzales, 401 F.3d 1090 (9th Cir. 2005). And, if Ms. Freeze would have read and retained what is in our briefs, she would have seen the laws we used. We believe Soetoro/Obama was born in Kenya, contrary to Ms. Freeze’s beliefs, Soetoro/Obama’s mother was not old enough to confer U.S. “natural born” citizenship status to Soetoro/Obama. Moreover, neither of Soetoro/Obama’s parents were in the U.S. Military at the time of Soetoro/Obama’s birth, her whole argument above, which was meant to mislead people and which is very ignorant for a law student, does not pertain. Ms. Freeze also forgets to mention the Nationality Act was revised in 1986 with a proviso regarding active Military, the only part of the code that was retroactive was the Proviso regarding the Military Status, nothing else. But again, neither of Seotoro/Obama’s parents were in the U.S. Military. Moreover, contrary to Scales, Soetoro/Obama’s father admitted paternity, the parents were married in Hawaii prior to Soetoro/Obama’s birth. Ms. Freeze has done nothing more than attempt to misapply the laws. And, once again Ms. Freeze also fails to address the legal name of Soetoro/Obama and Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian citizenship.
Obama’s citizenship will be determined under the 1952 version of the Immigration and Nationality Act since he was born in 1961 and the Act wasn’t updated again until 1966. According to § 301(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (66 Stat. 235), “a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person [is a natural born citizen].” According to § 305 of the same statute, any person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900 was to be considered a natural born citizen. Obama’s mother was a citizen of the United States, and his father was a citizen of Kenya. They were married six months before Obama was born. There is no doubt that Obama’s mother resided in the United States or its possessions for at least one year prior to Obama’s birth. Therefore, Obama can’t be anything other than a natural born citizen. Combine this detail with his birth in an American State, you have a certified natural born citizen.
Ms. Freeze’s 1966 law fails and she completely contradicts herself. The law that is applied is the law in effect at the time of the birth, in Soetoro/Obama’s case, the Nationality Act of 1940 revised 1952. See Marquez-Marquez a/k/a Moreno v. Gonzales, 455 F. 3d 548 (5th Cir. 2006), Runnett v. Shultz, 901 F.2d 782, 783 (9th Cir.1990). Law in 1966 does not apply, unless Ms. Freeze can show me where it states it is retroactive, which she CANNOT. We are not disputing that Hawaii was a state, we are not disputing if in fact Soetoro/Obama was born in Hawaii he would be a U.S. “natural born” citizen. Further, Kenya is not an outlying possession of the U.S. The law used by Ms. Freeze once again does not pertain to the issues outlined in our cases; does not apply to Soetoro/Obama’s birth in Kenya; fails to address Soetoro/Obama’s legal name; and fails to address Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian citizenship. Moreover, even if the 1966 version applied, which is does NOT, Soetoro/Obama’s mother was not present residing in the U.S. for a continuous year prior to Soetoro/Obama’s birth. We believe Soetoro/Obama’s mother was residing in Kenya and in fact gave birth to Soetoro/Obama in Kenya.
Important issues left out by Ms. Freeze in attempt to confuse the reader is the fact Soetoro/Obama became Barry Soetoro an Indonesian Citizenship. No records have been located legally changing Barry Soetoro’s name back to Barack H. Obama. No records have been located showing Soetoro/Obama relinquished his Indonesain citizenship, which was a requirement of Indonesia and outlined in their laws (Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship status) and reclaiming any U.S. citizenship status he may have once held. Thus, Soetoro/Obama is still Barry Soetoro an Indonesian Citizen.
One last question I have for Ms. Freeze, if in fact Soetoro/Obama was a U.S. “natural born” citizen and eligibile to serve as our United States President, why in the world would he spend in excess of a Million Dollars litigating these cases instead of just providing proof of his citizenship status? I’m curious to see how Ms. Freeze would respond. We know the answer, because Soetoro/Obama can’t.
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DavidP:
If you “have followed this issue for more than a year” you should have noticed that this was covered more than a year ago as well.
Shauna Daly of the Obama campaign told FactCheck that “[We] couldn’t get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we’ve found out it’s pretty irrelevant for the outside world.”
The document FactCheck looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 – 010641.
That’s an amazingly goofy suggestion.
Ignoring that diplomatic status is not retroactive, Obama’s father was never a diplomat… period.
Ambassador Ogego said Obama Sr. was one of the ‘Big 5′. Kenya uses that expression to reference their animals and Pentegon Executives.
So how do you know Obama Sr. wasn’t a diplomat?
Just incase you thought I had NO BASIS for my assumption that you are now under BRITISH command:-
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/18445
The UN and Interpol How the UN will gain power
By Barry Napier Wednesday, December 30, 2009
It is interesting that the man who cast aside the US Constitution like a rag, and imposes his own laws without consent, has agreed to allow an international police authority to overrule the US government.
Barack Obama signed an Executive Order giving express permission for Interpol to supersede the laws and police authorities of the USA.
Some have seen this as heralding loss of sovereignty. The truth is, the USA already lost it when it voted for Obama. Before the election he promised to hand over sovereignty to the UN, and this will indeed occur if the people allow him to carry on implementing his own Executive Orders without the consent of Congress or the people!
Interpol
Interpol operates with the consent of 188 member countries (so far). Its aim is to combat international crime and seek cross-country police cooperation. This is based on the “limits of existing laws in different countries and in the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights” (which has itself caused more mayhem than it is worth). Its constitution prohibits being involved in political, military, religious or racial conflict. Tell that to the fairies!
In 2005, Interpol briefed members of the UN’s Security Council Counter Terrorism Committee on its work to combat terrorism and its “growing cooperation with the UN in a range of anti-crime areas”. But, what is considered to be ‘crime’? Whatever the UN decides it will be.
Interpol has an office in the UN’s New York building. The links between Interpol and the UN are very strong, if not interwoven. Interpol spokesmen say that Interpol can give “teeth and real impact to Security Council Resolutions”.
According to Interpol’s Article 2, Interpol is looking for “new opportunities” to expand its operations within the UN. In other words, Interpol is to be the police eyes and ears of the UN worldwide. Doesn’t this sound rather familiar? (If it doesn’t, read up on Soviet KGB operations). Remember, too, that anti-environmentalism is being called ‘terrorism’.
Interpol has a worldwide anti-terrorism network. Yet, Obama is nestling up to terrorist organisations and countries. This means that the central theme of ‘terrorism’ will change dramatically under Obama. Also, Obama is planning to make the owning of small arms illegal, effectively making US people defenceless, not just before criminals but also before government. Interpol will be used to discover and arrest those who own small arms.
Another aim of Interpol is to provide support for UN peacekeeping missions. Anyone who knows the truth recognises that these UN peacekeeping missions are anything but! They are killing sprees, with UN troops at the helm, making sure Marxist regimes stay in power, or gain power. How can Interpol claim neutrality when it assists UN troops in murderous ‘peacekeeping’?
This is of prime importance when Interpol says that another area of crime it wishes to obliterate is “Genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity”. Yet, the UN Charter includes the notion of genocide, its troops are guilty of war crimes, and the UN says that anti-greens are acting against humanity!
Anti-Greens are ‘Criminals’
According to Interpol, “Environmental crime is a serious and growing international problem… it is not limited to criminals polluting the air, water and land and pushing commercially valuable wildlife species closer to extinction; it can also include crimes which speed up climate change… and exhaust essential natural resources.” What did Interpol say about not being involved in politics?
Very clearly, Interpol is working behind the scenes to identify ‘criminals’ who oppose climate change plans by the UN! Can’t you see what is going on? Can’t you see that we are seeing the creation of a Marxist regime far greater than the Soviets could have dreamt of? Far greater than the one now existing in China?
Interpol speaks of these ‘crimes’ as being harmful to the economy and security… blatant political propaganda dressed up in police uniforms! What has a police organisation got to do with the economy? The economy is to do with politics!
The organisation says that organised crime is behind anti-green activities. This tells us which way Obama and the UN are moving to silence their foes. “In this way we can contribute to the ongoing conservation of the world’s environment, biodiversity and natural resources.” This is nothing but police being used as the strong-arm men of the UN to silence anti-green activity. What has a police organisation to do with ‘conservation’ and ‘natural resources’? Nothing! But, under the UN, Interpol will make very sure people like me are eliminated. (Of course, before that, they will ensure that our names are ridiculed and our protests are muffled, which works just as well).
One must ask Interpol why it doesn’t investigate the CRU at East Anglia University, or other scientists about their fraud, or Greenpeace about its sabotage… or Obama and Brown taxing the people fraudulently.
“Corruption undermines political, social and economic stability”. In which case, why isn’t Interpol investigating every country involved in the recent Copenhagen Summit, or that imposes tax based on fraudulent green claims? It is evident that Interpol is not genuine!
UN and ‘Natural partners’ (un.org 11th October, 2009)
The UN already has its own police force (UNPOL) – did you know that? But, Interpol will take precedence. The UN’s Secretary General says that the “only way to succeed is to join forces.” Succeed at what? The UN has no place in the world, but it acts anyway! Wherever it goes it creates, not reduces, conflict, often to the point of murder, rape and pillage… and I am taking here about UN troops.
The UN Security Council, supposed to look after peace and reduce tensions, is dominated by Islamic countries that hate Israel. Every meeting starts with hateful statements against Israel. Every meeting begins with demands to sanction Israel. Therefore, Interpol is part of this hate campaign against the Israeli nation, by siding with Islamic extremist governments who make their own ‘laws’ against Israel! What you think of Israel is not the issue. The real issue is that if the UN gets away with this, the next one to suffer could easily be YOU.
Singapore Summit
On 11th October, 2009, Interpol’s Secretary General met with the UN’s Secretary General in Singapore. In the meeting praise was given to police forces joining together to fight organised crimes worldwide. This is fine. But, they don’t need the UN for this! The UN is a Marxist organisation, corrupt and trouble-making.
The opening speech spoke of a new era when Interpol will work with the UN by “entering into a strategic partnership to promote state stability, and, in turn, global law and order.” Police forces can do this on their own – they don’t need the sticky fingers of the UN.
Law officers are seconded to Interpol for particular operations, so, in theory, there are no actual ‘Interpol officers’. But, with the USA being handed over to the UN by Obama, it makes no real difference – the UN will control what local officers, FBI, etc., do. UN Dispatch.com (23rd December) says that all this is just ‘fear mongering’. Is it? Given Obama’s lamentable record in his first year of office (assuming he is there legitimately, of course), we have every right to be concerned.
The Norwegian UN mission (Norway-un.org 16th April 2009) states: “the role of the police is considered pivotal in consolidating peace and building sustainable security.” Perhaps Norway should go back a few years and remember how this worked when Hitler decided to make his land-grab! In every country Hitler took, the ‘pivotal’ force was the national and local police forces. They made sure Nazi plans were adhered to, and arrested anyone who didn’t make the grade, often leading to their deaths. Fear mongering?
No, it is a step closer to “common goals of global security and peace”. The best peace we can have is to retain national borders and national policing. The worst move is to bring in the UN and its notion of Marxist world government.
Secretary General of Secrecy
It is no coincidence that this joining of the UN and Interpol should come under the Secretary-Generalship of Ronald K Noble. He is a tenured professor of law at New York University, and previously worked as the US Dept of Treasury as First Undersecretary for Enforcement. He has held many law-related positions in the US and has Obama’s right hand.
This man is complicit in the aim of Obama to keep documents from the sight of Americans, by claiming protection for Interpol officers who are now able to work with diplomatic immunity. Thus, any documents Obama wants hidden can simply be given to Interpol! In this way Obama jumps over the head of the Constitution, and Interpol are not held to the Freedom of Information Act. This is all going on underneath your noses! I wonder if this is where Obama’s birth certificate will be going?
During Hitler’s time, Interpol was under the command of the SS. (Freedomswings.wordpress.com). The FBI sought membership of Interpol in 1938, despite it being riddled with, and ruled by, the SS. Thus, today, only the type of socialism has changed… Interpol is now under Marxist rule. The continued membership of the USA in Interpol, and the new status of Interpol as diplomatic, with immunity, means that Obama can operate under the radar as much as he likes, by placing documents with Interpol. And Interpol can be used as the bully-boys of state, with no come-backs.
Interpol will work alongside the UN’s stormtroopers, as enforcers of UN laws and whims. It has immunity in the USA – no doubt it will gain immunity in many more countries as they mimic Obama’s duplicity. They will investigate and arrest any who dare to oppose UN policies, whether social, criminal or economic, including anti-greens. Watch for it, because it is bound to come.
END STORY;
OK, the WHOLE COMMONWEALTH, who just happen to be UN member nations, can see that AMERICA is now OWNED by HER MAJESTY the QUEEN!
The article is right. Obama “warned” you of his political agenda, ie, destroying your constitutional freedom and right to be exempt from international law.
In effect, ANY constitutional argument concerning YOUR NATIONAL LAW, is VOID, because technically, your nation is no longer under constitutional rule.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND YET?
OBAMA, gave your freedom, to ME…….and I DON’T WANT IT On MY CONCIENCE!
Your dollar is worthless, your businesses are broken, your workers pile up in the gutters, and you are now dictated to by the crown of England under HER law.
Great going slartbart……..you understand global politics and international laws so well, have fun being governed by them at the expense of the children of the USA!
IDIOT!
Emeritus
RE: Anti-Greens are ‘Criminals’
Cites:
The EPA has been granted Executive Powers.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+42USC7603
Environmental Emergency Powers:
Excerpt:
the Administrator, upon receipt of evidence that a pollution source or combination of sources (including moving sources) is presenting an imminent and substantial endangerment to public health or welfare, or the environment, may bring suit on behalf of the United States in the appropriate United States district court to immediately restrain any person causing or contributing to the alleged pollution to stop the emission of air pollutants causing or contributing to such pollution or to take such other action as may be necessary.
/excerpt
and
The Federal Office of the Environment and Public Works has released this statement:
NUREMBERG-STYLE TRIALS PROPOSED FOR GLOBAL WARMING SKEPTICS
http://epw.senate.gov/fact.cfm?party=rep&id=264568
Hi all, there have been some great debates happening here. However, I must ask Slartibartfast, although we may have differing opinions which our Constitution does allow under the 1st Amendment, there should not be any inferences to name calling or degrading. Please tone it down Slartibartfast. No need for things to become heated because one does not agree with another.
We all must understand, we as people have a right to have our own opinions and beliefs, however, it should not call for any degrading, implied or not, name calling or inferences.
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL. I HOPE ALL YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE. MY QUESTION TO EACH OF YOU, ANY NEW YEARS RESOLUTIONS?
PLEASE BE SAFE AND HAVE A WONDERFUL EVENING.
[...] From Obamacrimes.com [...]
Yes, Paralegal,
I have one. to stop INTERPOL illegally governing your country.
The government has been USURPED, and i think it’s about time hiding behind a birth certificate became the last of Mr Obama’s problems.
Take a look at what “I’ve’ been learning! it’s not just me though, I think a lot of people smell “treason”, and in more ways than one?
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/18522
Basically, you don’t have a constitution anymore, so all is MOOT regarding it’s law. Just like I said a few days ago. This case, and every case like it, will now be thrown in the “economic terrorist” basket. They’ll arrest you, mr Berg, and anyone else that gets in the way of them robbing the American people of their dollar and it’s value.
I don’t think these so called “legal eagles” that post here in support of Obama realise that they are directly responsible for giving Obama the power to act in this manner.
Because they argued to the point of inferring a misleading interperetation of the constitutional law, they themselves, are now slaves to the United nations, and even THEIR activities MAY see them slapped in jail under international law. HEAVEN KNOWS, when their income is affected, they will try to buck the system, which will be their own undoing under the econimic terrorism laws, which are of course, now enforced by INTERPOL.
Stupidity comes in all shapes and sizes. Unfortunately, while you were all focussing and investing time into this issue, Obama has successfully torn the constitution into pieces, and scattered it in the wind, just as kennedy had hoped to do to the CIA prior to his assasination.
The global elites own you now, and my new years hope, is that this will be reversed before it becomes accepted as the norm in America.
Emeritus.
>>>…just as kennedy had hoped to do to the CIA prior to his assasination
I’ve not been able to hard source this. Now Zbigniew Brzezinski argued for this; but Kennedy had some good people around him and just took much of what Brzezinski said under advisement.
However, Carter made Brzezinski his National Security Advisor and made everything Brzezinski said policy. Hence, the US’s Security Council was drastically reduced and meetings took place much less frequently.
Zbigniew Brzezinski is one that should be scrutinized.
You folks crack me up.
Free speech is a wonderful thing, but combine it with stubbornness and it becomes hilarious.
But then again, it simply has to be a conspiracy, right?
The sad part about this discussion is that apparently it’s no longer enough to present conclusive arguments to settle a matter at hand. Not that practitioners of law are always susceptible to logic, of course, but then again I’m not aware of your respective occupations.
Oh, by the way, Emeritus: Excessive capitalization does not raise the level of facticity of your statements.
Thanks to all of you for providing me with half an hour of exciting entertainment!
I’m glad that you find it entertaining to have become a slave to the UN…..thats ok, your blind stupidity doesn’t alter the fact that you don’t even have a constitution anymore. Prove me wrong?
Emeritus
So present your arguments and be heard!
This article is very good and Mr. Berg’s arguments are poignant. I just can’t understand why the liberals have no doubt about Obama’s citizenship. And how this issue is so muddled and cloudy and the press will not touch it. It is so frustrating!
It is very frustration. Thank you for the nice comments.
If all who would defend Barry Soetoro aka Barak H Obama truly respected our US Constitution and their personal integrity they would join together to insist Barry Soetoro aka Barak H Obama removes all barriers to anyone that wishes to investigate his past. Including, but not limited to investigating his origin of birth, his parents, his citizenship(s), his education, his student loans, his business relationships, his political relationships, his personal relationships, his religious relationships, etc. After all, other than the truth, what does Barry Soetoro a/k/a Barak H Obama have to hide? Moreover, did he not campaign on making his the most transparent administration?
Frankly, Barry Soetoro a/k/a Barak H Obama all I am seeing is a con man, not a salesman
Thank you SALT, you said that very well. These people have their rights to stick up for who they believe in, however, they seem to forget “we as people” have the right to ask questions of our elected officials. And yes, you are 100% accurate, where is the transparency promised by Soetoro/Obama? His words not ours.
“… This type of thing, by Ms. Freeze, is what gives folks the WRONG information …”
Actually, Mr. Berg, it is the type of thing that you publish that gives folks misinformation. For example, your package of unsupported claims and distortions in video form:
http://greenfabric.com/robb/2008/10/22/ethics-in-sleazy-video-non-journalism-critique-of-obama-citizenship-i-invented-the-internet/
If I’m wrong in any of my facts or conclusions, I’d appreciate hearing about it, and will post the appropriate retraction.
Robb,
Those are some pretty blanket accusations your making there. What exactly are you claiming Mr. Berg misinformed people on? Like the video manufactured by Illuminati, which you claimed Mr. Berg stated he invented the internet? That was an obvious oops on your part as the video was simply an interview of Mr. Berg conducted by a 3rd party.
Hi Paralegal,
“Those are some pretty blanket accusations your making there.”
I tried to limit my conclusions as much as possible. If you think I was overly broad in any particular points, let me you.
“What exactly are you claiming Mr. Berg misinformed people on?”
Numbers 2 – 5 in my post.
“Like the video manufactured by Illuminati, which you claimed Mr. Berg stated he invented the internet?”
(This refers to #1.) I may not have been clear enough in my writing; I simply didn’t preface #1 with “Berg:” like I did #2 – #5. I now made it clearer by adding “by the film-maker:” in #1. Thanks.
Hi robb.
You’re not too smart, or well versed on citizenship laws, are you?
Answer me this……….If a man is born a dual citizen, ie, a citizen of two nations at birth, then, which country is he naturally born to?
Have fun with the answer, and remember, everytime you’re wrong, Obama loses another rating point in the opinion polls!
Emeritus
“You’re not too smart…”
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that somewhere within, is the capacity to act civilly towards others.
In my post (linked above), I concluded that “the video [of Berg] contains many untruths and arguments made in bad faith.”
If any of my findings about Berg (## 2–5) are wrong, I’m anxious to hear about it, and will post a retraction.
## 2–6. Sorry – I didn’t realize I’d taken the time to write up five of the distortions/untruths I found.
Sure, I can be civil. But why should I be, when the most basic question is not only overlooked, but never asked…….let alone answered.
Answer me this. To what country was Barrack Obama Jr born ‘naturally” to, having been naturally born a citizen of two nations? And is such a man who’s citizenship is split at the time of his birth legally able to claim the natural born citizenship status required to serve as president of the united states?
When you can answer these questions, legally, we can end this debate.
Emeritus
1. The United States. 8 U.S.C. §1401(a), (d) and (f) (only if we believe that Obama’s birth certificate was not sufficient proof of his parentage).
2. Yes. 8 U.S.C. 1481.
Debate over. Put that one to bed. Phew.
Robb,
It would be a lot easier if you would just post on our thread what questions you have instead of directing back and forth. It gets way too confusing and too hard to follow.
Thanks.
If the American people are seen as idiots as suggested by Bad Fiction because U.S. citizens question the birth and background of people who apply for the highest office in the U.S. government and the American people didn’t question those running for office or in power and ignored the process of vetting or showing proof of citizenship at any time for many purposes then we wouldn’t live in a democracy. We wouldn’t have elections nor would we need to vet the applicants because it wouldn’t matter who is sworn into office, be it legal citizens or illegal aliens. Unfortunately, the vetting process for President Obama was allegedly incomplete; thus when brought to the light, he sealed all of his records and paid over $1,000,000 to keep his birth records sealed according to news reports. A citizen or lawyer could probably file a complaint with the police, or ICE or a governor or FBI agent and ask law enforcement to investigate President Obama’s proof of citizenship based on probable cause. It’s my understanding that if law enforcement asks any U.S. citizen to prove his legal status that the citizen must comply or suffer the consequences should he refuse their order based on circumstantial evidence after a complaint is filed with their departments. Law enforcement officers have a duty to investigate complaints filed by citizens for the safety of the American people which they do all the time when it comes to people they believe are illegal aliens. In fact, isn’t it negligent for law enforcement and politicians to ignore the rule of law when a complaint is filed or they have knowledge of alleged misrepresentation and isn’t it their duty to follow up based on probable cause?
If a police officer asks your name, even if you aren’t doing anything wrong and a citizen refuses to cooperate, it’s my understanding that the police officer can arrest the citizen for non-compliance with law enforcemnt if the officer believes he has probable cause after the person refuses to show proof of citizenship and proper identification. Why should anyone in the U.S. be allowed to seal their identification and if that’s the case then why are we arresting people who don’t have proper U.S. identification papers? What’s the big deal about showing a birth certificate since most jobs require complete identification, especially government jobs? Why are we throwing employers into jail for not properly screening people without proper identification if the President of the United States refuses to provide his birth certificate as proof of citizenship to a judge or congress to end a national debate related to his eligibility?
calling millions of American that beluve other than what you believe tells me sir they are not the idiots. You disregard everything proven and put your version to it which is ok since you have the right to your opinion.
You dismiss the fact that barry said he would back the nusim is things went bad for him. take in case his trying to get the terriost reprieved from their devious acts,
his long time friendship with terriost and anti_ American people. The fact that he has dual And that:s a maybe since he has produced no evidence od being natural born American. His grandmother states she was with him when he was born why woulkd shelie on her grandson? Show us sir his papers then talk to us.Until then you have nothing except your devotion to barry.
calling millions of American that beluve other than what you believe tells me ms, freeze they are not the idiots. You disregard everything proven and put your version to it which is ok since you have the right to your opinion.
You dismiss the fact that barry said he would back the nusim is things went bad for him. take in case his trying to get the terriost reprieved from their devious acts,
his long time friendship with terriost and anti_ American people. The fact that he has dual And that:s a maybe since he has produced no evidence od being natural born American. His grandmother states she was with him when he was born why woulkd shelie on her grandson? Show us ms. his papers then talk to us.Until then you have nothing except your devotion to barry.
They will not do anything too him..This is a plant, a planned person too be president, the people responsible have been wanting and planning this for a century. They hate the way America is (even though this country made them rich and powerful)and it will get a lot worse. If you speak out on issues like this you are categorized and made to be a complete moron. Regardless of what Mr. Berg does I dought it will have an impact. Our government is being controlled by some very powerful people to bring us into a new world society. They will get there way too….They are breaking the back of America. I look at it like this and have for about 8 years now…It’s like a cartoon I saw when I was a kid..This guy was fighting an alligator and he got the alligator on his back and pinned him and the alligator struggled and struggled to get free, the more he struggled the man applied more pressure..then the alligator got tired and stopped and the man made boots out of him. That is how I see what our government is doing…They have us down and are applying more and more pressure to wear us out so we will get tired and stop struggling so they can kill what we stand for and turn our country into a carl marx country. Most of our government believes this way, Polosi, Clintons, reeds, obama’s mccains, you can pretty much name them…This thought process has been around for a hundred years or more and it will TRANSFORM this country and make it into the ideals that they have been wanting on for a hundred years…the only way to correct this is for us too take our country back and get rid of the current government, the constitution says for us to do this and if we DO NOT it will be our own fault…The IRS is in control now..the people that control them are self proclaimed communist!!!! This is worse than any of us know!!!